485 W of class A valve power - yeee-haah!

[Old Guy]

In these parts, you can get 40 acres and a mule for that kinda money.

[scott fitlin]

$98,400 for a pair! OUCH.

I wouldnt care IF I had 100 million, I would still have to hear them, and decide that I HAVE to HAVE them.

[selmerdave]

Originally posted by Steve Mac:
Tube amps...as sweet as they can be are a turn off
because of the maintenance required. I think a lot of dudes who are spending this money never lived through the tube era and saw the frustration of the audiophiles bitching constantly about not knowing how the amp would sound from one day to the next. With the relative recent resurgence of tube high end set's, I think very soon a new generation will be getting ready to be dissappointed too.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That's kind of a silly statement, technically the only difference between a tube amp and a ss amp is the use of tubes or transistors. While it could be argued that tubes as a whole are less reliable than transistors, replacing them is really as simple a maintenance procedure as could possibly exist, and in many cases tubes will last 40+ years in service. Not the same for transistors. Beyond that, in terms of the circuits tube amps usually have transformers while ss amps do not, but I think you'd have a hard time arguing that transformers are a maintenance issue. Sure a late-60's receiver with a million parts is going to be a major task to maintain, but that's true whether it's a tube amp or ss, and not because of the use of tubes.

Dave

[Steve Schell]

Steve, I've also got to disagree with your comments about tube amps. Tube replacements after several thousand hours of operation are no big deal, and the circuits tend to be very simple and reliable otherwise. The tube renaissance has been gaining strength for at least 25 years now and shows no sign of abating.

The Atma-sphere amps may look overly complex and impractical at first glance, but the basic circuit has a lot going for it including super wide bandwidth, crystal clear sound and fully balanced operation. I built a pair of knock off MA-1 amps years ago and have been very happy with them. I met the designer Ralph Karsten at CES last year and admitted my transgression. Was he upset? No, he began giving me tips for improved circuit performance. What a guy!

[scott fitlin]

But Steve, HOW MUCH did you invest into your knockoff amps?

I am not saying OTL amps cant or dont sound nice, but 100 grand for a pair of amps is really, really expensive.

[GM]

Wow! Even higher than the bloated/ridiculous price I speculated. Oh well, there's plenty of folks around the world who can afford such expense without giving it any thought or without it reducing their considerable monetary gifts to various charities, so might as well spread the wealth around a little.

[Steve Schell]

Let's see Scott, it's been awhile...

The MA-1 circuit uses 12 6AS7G output tubes per channel. I bought several cartons of them from New Sensor for $3.50 per tube; still have enough to retube a couple more times. I used new surplus 1:1 isolation transformers for the output B+ supplies and some NOS power transformers on hand for the small signal B+ and filaments. I had to purchase really beefy 6.3V filament transformers for the output stages. Still, I probably spent less than $1,000 for everything, while the real Atma-sphere MA-1 amps were selling new for $6,500 at the time. I am certain that they are better amps, but I have enjoyed my scrounged up copies anyway.

100 watts into eight ohms is way too much power for my current 108dB sensitive horn system; I run a homebrew 45 amp most of the time. I have thought about transformer coupling the DHT voltage amp and driver stages of my 45 amp with a smaller version of the Atma-sphere's circlotron output stage, using maybe four or six output tubes. This would combine the DHT front end magic with the super wide bandwidth, low phase shift OTL output stage.

[scott fitlin]

Thats exactly what I mean. IMHO, over the last several years, beginning in the late 90,s, pricing skyrocketed out of control.

I can and do remember when $100,000 bought you the BEST professional dance club system avaialable. COMPLETE with everything, speakers, amps, electronics, turntables, tape deck, and custom console, wiring, and installation.

No matter how good the Atma-sphear amps sound, you just cant tell me it represents any kind of value for the money. And that they originally cost $6500 in the 90,s, I remember them being advertised, and the rise in price to $98,4000, Im sorry, not commensurate with actual rise and inflation.

[bfish]

$100K will go a long way towards putting a good live band in your living room on a regular basis...guess it all depends on what you're into, enjoying music, or impressing your peers.

[scott fitlin]

Originally posted by bfish:
guess it all depends on what you're into, enjoying music, or impressing your peers.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">This pretty much sums up my own feelings about what High End Audio has turned into as well. Status Symbol BS!

To tell you the truth, I used to be an avid reader of Stereophile magazine. Till one day I began going to manhattan Audio Salons, the high end joints prefer to be called Salons, rather than stores, or shops, but, anyway, many times I would go to hear something a reveiwer was drooling about, and quite a few times, I really thought the reveiw was off, WAYYY OFF!

I guess we all knew you cant buy by reveiw, you have to LISTEN, and see what you like, but, in any case, I renamed Stereophile, STEREOPHOOL!

However, its not all a waste, I found a company that makes speakers I find good for living room listening, B & W, and even there, I like the 802,s over the flagship 801,s. Go figure?